From: "hoping" <Hoffmann.Win@t-online.de>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.plasma
Subject: Re: Plasma Quench Technology
Organization: T-Online
References: <8847vg$ho0$1@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <887qfu$dqa$1@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>


Walt,

your paper (and your work!) is very interesting. Please allow several days
for my answer (I'm not yet retired!). I hope this line will not be cancelled
in the meantime; otherwise I'll answer directly.

Regards
hoping

Hion solar <hionsolar@aol.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
887qfu$dqa$1@jupiter.cs.uml.edu...
> Hoping,
>
> Your detailed response intrigues me. We have been using the expansion of
a jet
> of hot gases [H + O + H2O + OH + O2+ H2 + some ionized species] to quench
> recombination. Ahead of the nozzle, upstream, there is concentrated
sunlight
> and water vapor [2-100 Torr] subjected to a glow discharge. Downstream,
after
> quenching, a skimmer is used to affect some separation into lighter and
heavier
> fractions. The object is to produce H2 and O2 from water.
>
> We have looked at the emission spectrum of the water vapor glow discharge
> without sunlight and see many UV lines. I'm wondering how you determined
that
> the fast recombination of the ions to form the neutrals or molecules
produced
> "non-equilibrium densities in the excited electronic states" ? What kind
of
> instrumentation?
>
> I've never seen a deep blue hydrogen jet.......yet. It sounds like a
beautiful
> sight! How much energy were you dissipating in the Pashen arc-jet? Was
it
> exhausting to atmosphere with pressure ratio > choked flow at inlet? Just
H2
> gas feed?
>
> If the electrons were still heating up the gas molecules as they exited
the jet
> and went through the transition region and dropped to sub-sonic velocity,
maybe
> a possitive-grid in the flow field could have stopped the downstream
heating
> affect [to rule that out]?
>
> Maybe you would be kind enough to comment on our work that has been
published
> in 1996 in IECEC. You can see the paper on our web-site:
WWW.HIONSOLAR.COM
> It is called Solar Thermal Hydrogen Production Paper on bottom of Home
Page.
>
> I am particularly interested in your comments about the H(-) ion and
postulated
> chain reactions using this ion to dissociate water in the excited state by
> electron donation. We would like to have a way to "see" this ion in the
> reaction flow-field and in the "afterglow" region where the separation
occurs.
>
> Thanks and Regards....Walt Pyle
>
> >Subject: Re: Plasma Quench Technology
> >From: "hoping" Hoffmann.Win@t-online.de
> >Date: 02/12/2000 10:15 AM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <8847vg$ho0$1@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>
> >
> >
> >Hi Walt:
> >
> >I did this work VERY long ago and to my knowledge nobody has resumed
since
> >then. The idea was to use an effect in analogy to the gasdynamic CO2
laser
> >principle, which was quite new in those days. (Now you have an impression
> >how long ago this was!) We (me and my collegues) knew, that very rapid
> >cooling of a quasi fully ionised plasma in equilibrium leads to
> >non-equilibrium densities in the excited electronic states of the neutral
> >atom or molecule, because of the fast recombination of the ion. If
> >collisional and radiation processes are within certain ranges, even
> >population inversion should occur. In some cases very high laser power at
> >comparably short wavelenghts should be possible. This was a result of the
> >theory. In the beginning it was calculated for hydrogen because it's the
> >simplest system and the rate coefficients were reatively well known - in
> >contrast to other gases. Although I knew that the H term scheme was not
> >necessarily the optimum I spent about two years to try making a high
power
> >CW! hydrogen laser in the near infrared (Paschen). Have you ever seen a
deep
> >blue hydrogen jet? It's a beautiful sight. It was created by supersonic
> >expansion of an arc discharge in a device originally destined for
electric
> >propulsion in space. It finally turned out, that at electron densities,
high
> >enough to produce a substantial optical gain in the direction
perpendicular
> >to the jet, in contrast to the (simple) theory the cooling was not rapid
> >enough to produce population inversion at all. Or in other words: The
blue
> >jet with population inversion was too thin. Or the device was too small
> >respectively. I am quite shure that in the atmospheres of some stars
there
> >may exist sometimes the conditions for a natural laser with only one
pass.
> >The reason for the failure? I still know it not for shure, because my
> >interest turned to other more short therm promising laser research
subjects,
> >but I think that from the point of view of an electron with high
(runaway)
> >speed, the gas velocity was deep in the subsonic region, so that high
energy
> >electrons could still heat up the plasma all the way down the jet.
> >Furthermore all the zoo of plasma waves could have had heating
capability.
> >The only way to simply overcome this problem was to leave the idea to
> >separating plasma production and decay by some distance in space, but to
do
> >just the same thing in time, that means to look in the afterglow of a
> >decaying pulsed plasma. That's what a lot of people did later with
> >remarkable results. One of the first was Silvfast at the Bell Labs, and a
> >lot of work was also done in Russia. Later then the principle was
extended
> >successfully to higher ionised species to obtain UV, XUV and so on....
But I
> >am still hoping (sic!) that someone will construct the CW plasmadynamic
> >hydrogen laser. Perhaps you?
> >
> >Regards Hoping
> >
>
>
>